July 2016 – Daniel Wozniak Is My Friend?

Daniel’s Comments on Comments

There probably won’t be much to blog about Daniel and his case for the next eight weeks, because he’s not scheduled to be sentenced until September 23^rd. This doesn’t mean I’m going to abandon the blog or anything, but the posts might be fewer and farther in between (as you possibly have already noticed – so sorry).

I want you guys to know that I truly value the blog readers. It doesn’t matter if you like what I write about or not, I just think it’s great that people take time to read anything I’ve written at all. I’m especially appreciative when comments are left. I know it takes me FOREVER to reply to comments. I will be honest with you, I need to be in a certain state of mind to tackle comment reading and replying. I have to be feeling “thick skinned,” I guess.

I have mentioned writing a book about this topic more than once in the blog. Some of you think it’s a great idea and some of you think I’m fame seeking and money grubbing. That’s cool. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. My dad used to say “Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one.”

I’m not calling you folks assholes. So please re-read the quote before you get all “typey typey” on the comments page.

I think I do need to shift my focus into figuring out what kind of book I want to write. Because I’m not exactly sure yet. I do know it won’t be your regular “true crime” book. Which is funny, because that’s what I’d set out to write in the first place.

As for this current post, I’m letting Daniel help me “write” it.

I always send him copies of my posts after they are made public. I want to get his take on what I wrote, and find out if he agrees or disagrees with any points I’ve made. I also send him your comments.

He started writing a few replies to the comments for me because:

He felt compelled to reply to some of you.
He wanted me to know his thoughts and feelings about some of the readers’ opinions.
He didn’t want me to have to assume his answers to readers’ questions.

Admittedly, Daniel was really only writing his comments for me. He didn’t mean for me to put his words all over the blog. I talked to him about it, though.

I explained that a lot of what he says is thought provoking, and conveys the Daniel I see and have befriended. I asked for permission to share a bit of what he wrote to me. He agreed and was fine with me paraphrasing or editing him (for clarity of understanding and fluidity of language).

Unfortunately, Daniel didn’t start at the very beginning.

Which is a very good place to start.

I have been reading this from start to finish since watching Dateline, which I saw by chance.

I am curious.

How much cash did Daniel get from Sam’s account?

Was it Worth it? ~ j.n., February 4, 2016, commenting on the post “Guilty – Part 4”

Daniel’s response:

“I believe the entire amount taken was $1500 (from three days of ATM withdrawals). But the amount is of money is only worth bringing up if you choose to believe the prosecution’s theory of a financial motive. Either way, no amount of money is worth a person’s life.”

Is there an official transcript of the police report in which Rachel said she saw the “phantom” hooded friend? Since the whole case against her is circumstantial, her wording is crucial. In interviews (like Dr. Phil) she says it’s doubtful that she used the words “I saw…”, and that she thinks she put it more like “there was…” (presumably because Dan had told her of a third party and at that point she had no reason to disbelieve him). Everyone’s arguing, but so far, nobody that I know of has come forth and just shown what it is she EXACTLY said.

Also, where is she now? Does she have to go to trial too? I heard she was arrested with $1M bail. Has she been in jail all this time? If not, how much time has she spent behind bars? ~ Scott, January 31^st, 2016, commenting on the post “Guilty – Part 5”

First Daniel made a joke about how he hopes this wasn’t his defense attorney, Scott Sanders.

“You can find a copy of Rachel’s statement by reviewing her interrogation interview.”

Ummm, and how might we obtain that, Daniel?

Daniel continued, “The first time Rachel talked to the Costa Mesa Police Department was at the apartment of Rachel’s brother, Noah. During that initial contact, Rachel said she ‘saw’ the third unknown guy who was with Sam on the day of his murder. At her first official interrogation, Rachel again stated that she ‘saw’ the guy.

“After that,” Daniel continued, “Rachel’s story changed. Then she claimed what she meant to say to the police is that she had just ‘heard’ there was a third man from Daniel. She believed it to be fact and she was trying to give detectives all the information without having any omissions.

“It’s tricky to determine what she said and what she meant, but why would she choose to say that she actually ‘saw”’ this man originally? Rachel has been very careful when making statements, so what reason / benefit would there be for her to tell the police that a third man was present?

“Likewise, remember that Rachel failed to say that Chris Williams was with Rachel at her and my apartment when Sam was murdered. Why make one person vanish (especially someone who can be your alibi), and yet make up the existence of a third unknown mystery man? You will have to ask her that yourself, but if she had nothing to hide, why lie?

“Also, Rachel is out on bail currently. It wasn’t a million dollars. Maybe closer to $3,500. She spent four days in jail during Thanksgiving of 2012.

“Rachel was offered a plea bargain a while back for testifying against me. She refused.”

I am fascinated as to Daniel’s thinking process by planning these two murders and the disposal of the one body. I feel that he is much like all the rest of us but he faltered that one time. Had he not he would be free today. I am curious as to what his specific plans were in committing the murders and what he imagined the outcome would be????? ~ R. Harris, February 1^st, 2016

(You and me both, R).

Daniel’s response:

“Well Mr. Harris, let me just say there wasn’t much planning in this tragedy. Things happened and it became a ’what to do’ situation as a result. I’m human, like the rest of you. We all fuck up sometimes. I never had any criminal background, and I lived a very typical life. I know it may be difficult to believe, but there was no specific plan in Sam’s murder. Everything fell apart in trying to ‘clean up’ a horrible mistake. If anyone deserves to be in jail, it’s me.”

Seems unlikely that he faltered once, and then went on to kill two innocent people, laughing while dismembering one. At the very least, he “faltered” twice. ~ Bill, April 2, 2016

Daniel’s response:

“Hi Bill. I have faltered way more than twice. But this was my worst. This situation is so emotionally painful. Life is irreplaceable. Death is so final. And so many people are affected by it. I never felt my actions would cause so much damage. It is difficult to think of the future when you’re so caught up in the moment. I let emotion get the better of me and now so many people are suffering the consequences as a result. I would gladly give up my life if it meant I could bring back Sam and Julie.”

That’s it for this post. I hope you found Daniel’s responses interesting. If you’re anything like me, you probably have a slew of new questions now as a result. If so, I hope you share them in the comments. And if you have any thoughts on the direction you like to see the book take, I’d welcome those as well.

How I Almost Got An Interview With Daniel Wozniak

I knew the 20/20 producer was only kidding around when she brought up the idea that I might interview Daniel myself. P20 – I do apologize if I caused you any problems when I mentioned this last week.

It’s a silly idea, right? I’m a blogger, not a TV show.

But once that little seed was planted in my mind, I started thinking, “Well what’s the harm of looking into this?” It might be the only chance to get Daniel on camera since I knew he hadn’t wanted to be interviewed by Dateline or 20/20.

This would be different. I’m his friend. It would be more like one of our regular conversations.

I started coming up with reasons in my head why this was a good idea:

I could promise Daniel I wouldn’t make the interview public until after everyone involved in the case had gone to trial.
I really wanted him to have an opportunity to speak to Sam’s and Julie’s families. That would only be for them to see (if they wanted), not made public (unless they wanted).
Since I’m not a journalist, I could share the questions with Daniel in advance and create additional questions at his suggestion… though I would not let him take out any questions.
Daniel would have the opportunity to talk in great detail about the Orange County informant scandal.
I could use the interview to gain publicity for my writing.
The experience would make a great story.

How Do You Interview Someone In Jail?

However, I had absolutely no idea how a person might go about doing an on-camera interview with a jail inmate, but I knew I walking in with my iPhone and filming Daniel through the glass wasn’t going to fly. And I figured I should probably check with him to see if he’d even be willing to consider the idea before I expended too much energy thinking about the details.

Getting Permission To Interview Daniel Wozniak

I decided to broach the subject during one of our visits… Often when I tell Daniel “I want to talk (to him) about something,” he responds with an amused, “Uh oh.” Usually it’s unwarranted. But not this time…

“Hey. One of the producers said something that got me thinking…”

“OK?”

“Maybe you should just let me interview you.”

“Huh?”

“Yeah, I could get a camera and figure out the logistics and I would interview you myself.”

“You? Interview me? On camera? Like a news correspondent?” Daniel burst into laughter.

“It’s not a totally crazy idea.” I was also laughing because it was a totally crazy idea.

“And what would you do with this interview?”

“Well… umm… I don’t know. I could put excerpts on the blog’s Facebook page. Maybe I’ll do a documentary about all of this someday. Ooh, I could use it as part of a multi-media presentation related to my one-woman show…”

“So, you’re actually serious about this?”

“Yup,” I said, grinning at him.

“This is probably not a good idea.”

“No, of course not. But…”

I explained that I wouldn’t make anything public until after all the trials were finished and how this would be a great opportunity to talk about the Orange County informant scandal.

Also, it wasn’t like he was going to say anything to me that couldn’t be overheard by the Orange County Sheriff’s deputies anyway, and I would promise that when the interview was made public, I would air the entire thing. No edits.

And most important: I’m his friend.

When Daniel told me to go ahead and look into it, I took that as a yes.

The Process and the Price

I did a little research and found out that I needed to contact the Public Information Officer for the Orange County Jail. I sent him an email explaining the situation and asking what I should do next.

I found out that before anything could happen, I had to go to the jail and have Daniel sign a form granting me permission to interview him.

It was a “non-visiting” day when I made the trip to the jail’s visitor area. I wasn’t used to the place being so empty.

This reception area is also used for people to claim the property of loved ones who have been recently incarcerated. On that day it was just the “property people” and one lawyer waiting to see her client.

I got in the regular check-in line behind no one and waited for an extra-long time for someone to notice I was standing there. I was told to come to window one and was greeted by one of the deputies. I recognized her from previous visits. She’s friendly. I explained about the form I needed to fill out.

She was rightfully confused and pointed out that I’d never identified myself as the media before.

“We know you. You’re his friend.”

I agreed with her and explained a little about the interview idea. She talked to another deputy and he got me a form to fill out. He took that form to Daniel. Within about 30 minutes he came back to tell me Daniel had signed the form and it would be forwarded to the PIO (Public Information Officer).

I left the jail feeling pretty good about myself. I was going to get the only on-camera interview with Daniel Wozniak.

I felt like I’d won something. I’ll be honest with you guys; my contact with the TV producers had skewed my way of thinking a little. It’s their jobs to care about ratings and landing interviews.

I’m just writing a blog about being friends with a person who did some terrible things. And I guess I want people to understand how I don’t define my friend by his actions.

My reasons for wanting to interview Daniel turned out to be a moot point anyway, because I couldn’t afford to actually do it.

It’s REALLY expensive to film someone at the Orange County Jail. It would have cost me thousands of dollars just setting up all the necessary insurance policies and paying the salaries of all the deputies who would be involved in the filming. Obviously it is a lot easier for the TV shows to pull this stuff off.

I know that I could make back the money I spent if I was willing to sell Daniel’s interview to one of those shows, but that negates the whole reason for having me do it in the first place. So, it wasn’t going to happen. Not now anyway. But Daniel trusted me and when it comes to the two of us being friends, that is what’s most important.

Murderer Musings and the Media: 20/20

All the TV producers have told me the same thing: Once Daniel is sent to an actual prison, he will not be able to do any on-camera interviews. This isn’t the way for every state, I was informed, but it’s the case in California.

This sort of confuses me. I know I’ve seen Charlie Manson interviewed more than once from behind bars. But let’s just assume that’s the situation. It means if Daniel doesn’t agree to an interview while he’s still at the OC Jail, he will miss his opportunity to ever do one.

I don’t think that bothers him. More and more, I think he’d prefer it.

Me? I’m a flip-flopper. Some days I totally want him to do an interview and sometimes I think it’s a terrible idea.

The 20/20 Producer

During the trial, I thought 20/20 had a much better chance of getting an interview than Dateline did. I was rooting for them.

I had a good feeling about the producer from 20/20.

From here on I’ll call her P20. I could have gone with 20/20 P, but I get a kick out of how P20 makes her sound like a Terminator or something.

I liked P20. I felt comfortable talking to her. I never thought she was judging me for being Daniel’s friend. When I would chat with P20 during the trial breaks, I would be much more swayed in favor of Daniel doing an interview.

I bet right now Daniel’s defense attorney, Scott Sanders, is happy it wasn’t my decision.

It was Daniel who put me in contact with Dateline, but P20 found me on her own during the trial. If I remember correctly, she was unaware of my blog at the time. She told me she’d noticed Daniel “looking at” me in the courtroom, so she approached me during one of the breaks.

Occasionally Daniel might have glanced in my direction, possibly acknowledging my presence as a supportive friend.

Soon after meeting her, I agreed to have lunch with P20. I blogged all about it.

I chatted with P20 often during the trial. We’d text about new developments and she’d ask me how Daniel was handling everything. And when her producer boss and Jim Avila (the 20/20 host for the episode about Daniel’s case) came to court one day, she introduced them to me. The 20/20 people discussed the possibility of doing an interview with me, but mostly they were hoping I would connect them with Daniel. So, I did.

P20 asked me if she could come along on one of my visits to the jail and meet Daniel and talk to him in person (off the record, of course). Now I didn’t just spring her on Daniel one day, I wanted to ask his permission first. He hadn’t been accepting any media visits, but we discussed it for quite a while, and I was able to get him to agree to a quick meeting. P20 would come to a visit with me, but she was only to stay for a few minutes. She’d introduce herself, talk to him a little about the show, and then she would leave us to our regular visit.

P20 Visits Daniel

The next week, we met out in front of the check-in for the Orange County Jail visiting center and I “showed her the ropes,” as they say. I felt sort of responsible for her, like when you bring one friend to another friend’s party, but the two of them don’t know each other.

I took her to the check-in line and we waited until we were called up to window two. We put our IDs in the glassed-in pass-through, and I explained how we had to completely close the door on our side or the deputy wouldn’t be able to open the door on the other side.

I taught her how to use the lockers. I often teach people how to use the lockers these days. I’m an OC Jail visiting expert now.

P20 and I waited for Daniel’s name to be called when it was time for the two o’clock visit. I took our paper and led her to the line for the metal detector. When we were on the elevator I got to amaze her with my knowledge about how the elevator doors open up on opposite sides depending on which floor you’re on.

We exited on floor 1M (J Mod) and I walked us down the winding corridor to the room with the visiting cubicles. Daniel wasn’t on his side yet, so I wowed P20 with another impressive fact:

“Sometimes we get here before they do.”

When I saw Daniel heading up the stairs, he seemed a little more reserved than usual. His hands were in his pockets and there was slightly less pep in his step. He was smiling politely. We sat down across from each other, and picked up our phones, and I “introduced” P20 to him by pointing up at her. He nodded a greeting.

I wanted to ask him if he was ready for this. I was concerned that I’d pushed him into doing something he hadn’t wanted to do. Instead, I just stood up and handed her the phone. She sat down on the round metal seat and started telling him how much she appreciated this opportunity to meet him.

It’s odd to only be able to hear one side of a conversation.

On our side, P20 went into what seemed to be a prepared spiel. She explained to Daniel about not being able to do an on-camera interview in California’s prisons. She told him that 20/20’s viewers would really be interested in hearing his story. I heard her say that Daniel could refuse to answer any question he didn’t want to answer. She said that 20/20 wasn’t trying to be the judge or jury… they just wanted to present all sides. She only had a few minutes and was clearly hoping to win Daniel over.

He nodded in understanding.

Then Daniel was doing all the talking. He was enthusiastically gesturing toward me through the glass. “Right… uh huh… sure,” P20 responded.

I was super curious and a smidgen nervous about what he might be telling her.

“That one there is totally bonkers,” I imagined him saying. “Did you know she’s actually writing a blog about me?”

This continued for a few more minutes and I noticed myself looking at my watch. I wanted to make sure P20 didn’t overstay her welcome. Soon after she thanked Daniel again for agreeing to meet with her and the two of them said their goodbyes.

P20 handed me the phone and reiterated how much she appreciated me bringing her along.

“So?” I said into the receiver as soon as she was in the hallway.

“So, what?”

“So what did you talk about? Are you going to do an interview? And why exactly were you repeatedly pointing at me?”

“I told her that you’re my contact. All communication with me needs to go through you.”

“Huh?”

He hadn’t agreed to an interview. He’d agreed to think about it (which I took to mean no) and he wanted to emphasize to her just how much I know about the story and what a good source of information I am.

I suddenly felt like his wingman at a bar. He wasn’t interested in the girl who was talking to us, but she really should check me out because I’m a great catch.

Daniel wanted P20 to just interview me because he wasn’t talking to anyone else.

The 20/20 Episode and After

On March 4, 2016, 20/20 aired its report of Daniel’s crime. The title was “Mystery in Apartment 410,” and neither of us was interviewed for the show. I would have done it, if they’d asked me, though. Oh well. The episode was only an hour (compared to Dateline’s two hours), and 20/20 had an interview with some of the jurors.

I still occasionally communicate with P20. I even texted with her during the airing of the show. It was good, but I wanted more of the jurors, myself.

I didn’t ask P20 what she thought of Daniel after meeting him. She volunteered that he came off as a regular nice guy. But if she thought he was a sociopath, would she even tell me? Probably not.

She did kid around that maybe I should just do an on-camera with interview Daniel myself…