20/20 – Daniel Wozniak Is My Friend?

Welcome 20/20 Viewers

Hello Everyone!

I’m taking a day off from working on the book to catch everyone up on a couple of items, especially since there might be new readers after the TV show 20/20 airs an interview with me for a two hour special about the terrible murders of Sam Herr and Julie Kibuishi (airing Friday, May 31 at 9:00PM local time on ABC).

For those who are new to the blog: Welcome! Thank you for checking it out. I hope you’ll read all the posts from the beginning.

I Know What He Is

As the title of the blog says, I am friends with Daniel Wozniak, who is currently on death row in San Quentin prison after being found guilty of killing both Sam and Julie.

I need to be very clear: I believe Daniel Wozniak is a murderer. He’s honest about that with me. He’s not some wrongly convicted innocent person serving time for a crime he didn’t commit.

When I began this blog in 2015, Dan still hadn’t been to trial. Even though I was always pretty sure he was probably guilty of his crimes, I firmly believe a person is innocent until proven guilty, so before Dan’s conviction, everything I wrote about him used the word “alleged” when referring to his crimes. There were plenty of readers who didn’t like that, and didn’t like me because I was willing to “call that monster my friend.”

The murders of Sam Herr and Julie Kibuishi were monstrous.

About Sam Herr

Sam Herr was a decorated Army veteran who served in Afghanistan. Sam was stationed at Outpost Keating; which I learned about after reading Jake Tapper’s The Outpost: An Untold Story of American Valor (recommended to me by Sam’s dad, Steve Herr, during Daniel’s trial).

Sam Herr, his parents’ only child, returned safely from fighting in a war, went to college to better his future, and was then shot and killed by a community theatre actor.

As an extra gut-punch, Steve and Raquel Herr had to learn their son’s body had been dismembered.

His head had been removed. His hand and arm had been sawed or chopped off. Sam’s body parts were stashed at a public nature center and eaten by animals.

And Sam’s parents learned about it all on what should have been Sam’s twenty -seventh birthday.

About Julie Kibuishi

Julie Kibuishi was a friend of Sam’s from college. The two met in an Anthropology class at Orange Coast College, and Julie offered to tutor Sam, who initially was having some difficulties with his grades. He ended up getting an A, and the two continued a close friendship.

By all accounts, this lovely, talented, and intelligent young woman would come to the aid of her friends at the drop of a hat. Julie is always described as kind, sweet, generous, funny, and talented (she graduated from Orange County School of the Arts, a prestigious arts high school).

She was only twenty-three years old; one of four children in a very tight knit family.

When she was shot twice in the head, she was wearing a costume tiara given to her hours before, when she was asked to be a bridesmaid in her brother’s upcoming wedding.

Why I Used A Pseudonym

There are people who can’t wrap their heads around how, or why, I’m able to be friends with the man who confessed to murdering these two people. I understand the confusion, shock, and sometimes outrage some readers have expressed in this blog’s comment section and on the Facebook page.

If you’ve been reading the blog for a while, you know I have used a pseudonym (Murderer Musings) from the beginning. I used pseudonyms for all the people involved, since I wanted to write about Daniel Wozniak without influencing his trial in any way.

When I found out this was not a concern for him, I started using everyone’s real names.

Everyone except me.

The story of Sam and Julie’s murders was already all over the media, but my name wasn’t and I felt the need to keep it that way. Early on, some commenters threatened me, and my children.

But truth be told, anyone could — and some people did — figure out my identity through unintentional but unavoidable “clues” in the blog.

After a while, and hopefully after reading my posts, most people got used to the idea of Dan Wozniak having a friend and that friend writing about him.

Seeking To Understand

Readers discovered that I’m not defending Dan’s actions. I’m just trying to understand how he sunk so low at one point in his life, and write about what kind of person he is today. I don’t want to judge a person by the worst thing he ever did.

I started the blog as a jumping off point to writing a true crime book about the murders of Sam and Julie. It’s my first time writing a true crime book (or any book for that matter) and I felt like I could use a little experience before tackling the Big Kahuna.

After some time, I felt secure enough that I decided to use my real name when the book comes out. Of course, with the 20/20 interview, the cat’s out of the bag a little early.

How It Began

Like many of you who are reading this, I’m extremely fascinated with true crime. I’ve been a huge fan of the genre for a very long time. In 2010, when I learned that an actor from my theatre company had just confessed to murdering two of his friends for money to go on a honeymoon… hell yes, I wanted to know more.

I wrote a letter to Dan at the Orange County Jail and… well you can read the blog to follow the story as it unfolded.

The Official Story Isn’t Necessarily the True Story

From early on, I had doubts that the public had been given the complete and honest story of Sam and Julie’s murders.

When I read about the case and saw interviews with law enforcement, my true-crime Spidey senses told me that, in spite of his confession, Dan Wozniak did not commit these two murders alone.

I’ve been learning the “true” story from Daniel himself these past couple of years, especially once Dan Wozniak was transferred to San Quentin, where our visits are not recorded.

It’s a bizarre story of an engaged couple whose jealousy and game playing led to the murders of two much-beloved people who did nothing to provoke their own deaths.

It’s not a nice story.

But in many ways, to me it makes much more sense than the one that came out in Daniel’s trial. My plan is to have my book finished in about a year and a half, so I can share that story with all of you.

Thank You For Being Here

Thank you for checking out my blog. I’m writing this before the 20/20 episode airs, so hopefully I come across as the semi-normal person I am.

So, again: welcome new readers!

And to my old readers: Hey guys! I’m on 20/20. And I’m finally dropping that pseudonym!

Hi! I’m Glendele.

48 Hours

Another news show aired an episode about Daniel Wozniak’s case. This time, it was 48 Hours.

I seem to get a bunch of new readers whenever a show airs. People learn about Daniel’s case for the first time, Google him, and then find my blog.

Hi new people. I’m happy to have you here. Welcome.

I hope you’ll read the entire blog from the beginning before you go comment crazy. Try to remember, I wrote the posts before and during the trial. I learned as I wrote. And I’ve probably already answered a lot of questions you might have.

I know the murders of Sam Herr and Julie Kibuishi are horrible. Daniel Wozniak’s confession of how and why Sam and Julie were killed is disturbing and gruesome. The man shown on that police interview video seems like a monster, but that’s not the guy I visit. In part, I write to make sense of my friendship with him.

Now let’s talk about 48 Hours.

Daniel Wozniak and the True Crime TV Shows

Arguably, Dateline, 20/20, and 48 Hours are the “big three” of hour-long news shows. On January 15, 2016, Dateline’s episode started the trend of covering Daniel’s crime. It was two hours long, it had an interview with Daniel’s ex-fiancée Rachel Buffett (shot years earlier), and most importantly, it was first.

When 20/20 aired their program about Daniel Wozniak on March 4, 2016, I followed along on social media. Many of the commenters complained this was the exact same show seen on Dateline.

The 20/20 episode did have a brief interview with the jurors (I wish there had been more of them). They also had court updates, but overall, I have to agree with the detractors: the story was told the exact same way.

48 Hours On Daniel Wozniak

On October 8, 2016, a month after Daniel was sentenced to death row, 48 Hours aired “Killer Performance,” their version of the Daniel Wozniak crime.

48 Hours had an interview that no one else had. It was an interview with me. They asked me not to make that information public until after the episode aired.

If you’re wondering how you missed the woman with My Little Pony-colored hair, that’s because I wasn’t on the show. The producer sent me a text the day before to let me know my interview didn’t make the edit.

This did not surprise me at all.

I’d seen a promo for the episode a few days before and, quite frankly, it looked like 48 Hours wasn’t doing anything different from the shows that had come before it. I figured if 48 Hours was going to use my interview, there would have been some mention in the promo about hearing from a “friend of the killer.”

Behind the Scenes

From the beginning, I suspected 48 Hours interviewed me as a way to butter me up. I had arranged for the producer of 20/20 to briefly meet Daniel during one of our visits, and the 48 Hours producer was hoping for the same opportunity. Or more.

If you remember from my post, I considered interviewing Daniel myself, as I was the only person he’d allow. Finances and logistics got in the way, but part of me really wanted the world to hear from the person I know. All anyone saw was his expressionless face (except for those poorly timed smiles at me) during his murder trial.

Yes, I know some of you don’t give a flying pig what he’s like. But lots of other people are damn curious about Daniel, and that’s why I wasn’t surprised TV producers were trying to use me to get to him, and 48 Hours worked the hardest.

On the day they shot the interview with me (at CBS Studios in Los Angles), I mentioned how Daniel actually had agreed to let me interview him on camera, and how I couldn’t swing it.

A month or so later, the producer approached me with an intriguing offer. She wanted me to interview Daniel on 48 Hours’ dime.

Wow.

When I brought the idea to Daniel, he had a lot of questions. Mostly, he didn’t particularly like the answers he got back.

He wouldn’t be able to know the questions in advance.
I wouldn’t be able to know the questions in advance.
I wouldn’t be seen on camera at all (I was fine with that).
I wouldn’t get to see the final edit before it aired (I wasn’t fine with that.)

When you get down to it, this wasn’t going to be his friend interviewing him. This was going to be 48 Hours interviewing him. He didn’t like that.

He also didn’t say no.

There were some financial and promotional benefits for me if he did the interview. Even though Daniel Wozniak is quite skeptical there is a positive side to showing himself to the public, he stayed open to discussing the possibility.

Then he let me decide.

I didn’t tell that to the 48 Hours producer (until now, I guess). I was a chicken. It was easier to have her think I didn’t have much say in the decision.

Don’t get me wrong, Daniel did not want to do the interview. He wouldn’t agree to meet with the 48 Hours producer at all, and she really wanted the opportunity to plead her case to him. It would not have made any difference though.

I never found out exactly why Daniel agreed to meet the producer from 20/20, but not the one from 48 Hours.

Eventually, after a lot of thought, there was no interview. I’m sure Daniel was relieved I made that choice.

It makes you wonder how different the entire episode would have been if they’d had that jailhouse interview with Daniel.

Even though 48 Hours did pretty much the same show as 20/20 and Dateline, I felt it was slightly more one-sided than the other programs. I didn’t like how the show made it seem like Daniel had no one supporting him. Daniel did not want his mother or any of his loved ones to suffer even more than they’ve already had to because of him.

The show did include a much too brief interview with the stage manager of the production Daniel and Rachel starred in at the time of the murders. Overall though, I didn’t think 48 Hours added much to the mix of media coverage for this story. Sure, they were able to show clips from Dr. Phil and Lockup, but those shows have been on YouTube for years. As is, I wonder if some true crime fans even bothered to watch 48 Hours (my mom didn’t).

I’m sure there are lots of people who don’t watch every news crime show on TV, so they learned about these murders for the first time from 48 Hours. Some of those viewers have made their way to me. I hope they stick around and read up on this case, because I do not believe the full truth about the murders of Sam Herr and Julie Kibuishi has been told yet.

How I Almost Got An Interview With Daniel Wozniak

I knew the 20/20 producer was only kidding around when she brought up the idea that I might interview Daniel myself. P20 – I do apologize if I caused you any problems when I mentioned this last week.

It’s a silly idea, right? I’m a blogger, not a TV show.

But once that little seed was planted in my mind, I started thinking, “Well what’s the harm of looking into this?” It might be the only chance to get Daniel on camera since I knew he hadn’t wanted to be interviewed by Dateline or 20/20.

This would be different. I’m his friend. It would be more like one of our regular conversations.

I started coming up with reasons in my head why this was a good idea:

I could promise Daniel I wouldn’t make the interview public until after everyone involved in the case had gone to trial.
I really wanted him to have an opportunity to speak to Sam’s and Julie’s families. That would only be for them to see (if they wanted), not made public (unless they wanted).
Since I’m not a journalist, I could share the questions with Daniel in advance and create additional questions at his suggestion… though I would not let him take out any questions.
Daniel would have the opportunity to talk in great detail about the Orange County informant scandal.
I could use the interview to gain publicity for my writing.
The experience would make a great story.

How Do You Interview Someone In Jail?

However, I had absolutely no idea how a person might go about doing an on-camera interview with a jail inmate, but I knew I walking in with my iPhone and filming Daniel through the glass wasn’t going to fly. And I figured I should probably check with him to see if he’d even be willing to consider the idea before I expended too much energy thinking about the details.

Getting Permission To Interview Daniel Wozniak

I decided to broach the subject during one of our visits… Often when I tell Daniel “I want to talk (to him) about something,” he responds with an amused, “Uh oh.” Usually it’s unwarranted. But not this time…

“Hey. One of the producers said something that got me thinking…”

“OK?”

“Maybe you should just let me interview you.”

“Huh?”

“Yeah, I could get a camera and figure out the logistics and I would interview you myself.”

“You? Interview me? On camera? Like a news correspondent?” Daniel burst into laughter.

“It’s not a totally crazy idea.” I was also laughing because it was a totally crazy idea.

“And what would you do with this interview?”

“Well… umm… I don’t know. I could put excerpts on the blog’s Facebook page. Maybe I’ll do a documentary about all of this someday. Ooh, I could use it as part of a multi-media presentation related to my one-woman show…”

“So, you’re actually serious about this?”

“Yup,” I said, grinning at him.

“This is probably not a good idea.”

“No, of course not. But…”

I explained that I wouldn’t make anything public until after all the trials were finished and how this would be a great opportunity to talk about the Orange County informant scandal.

Also, it wasn’t like he was going to say anything to me that couldn’t be overheard by the Orange County Sheriff’s deputies anyway, and I would promise that when the interview was made public, I would air the entire thing. No edits.

And most important: I’m his friend.

When Daniel told me to go ahead and look into it, I took that as a yes.

The Process and the Price

I did a little research and found out that I needed to contact the Public Information Officer for the Orange County Jail. I sent him an email explaining the situation and asking what I should do next.

I found out that before anything could happen, I had to go to the jail and have Daniel sign a form granting me permission to interview him.

It was a “non-visiting” day when I made the trip to the jail’s visitor area. I wasn’t used to the place being so empty.

This reception area is also used for people to claim the property of loved ones who have been recently incarcerated. On that day it was just the “property people” and one lawyer waiting to see her client.

I got in the regular check-in line behind no one and waited for an extra-long time for someone to notice I was standing there. I was told to come to window one and was greeted by one of the deputies. I recognized her from previous visits. She’s friendly. I explained about the form I needed to fill out.

She was rightfully confused and pointed out that I’d never identified myself as the media before.

“We know you. You’re his friend.”

I agreed with her and explained a little about the interview idea. She talked to another deputy and he got me a form to fill out. He took that form to Daniel. Within about 30 minutes he came back to tell me Daniel had signed the form and it would be forwarded to the PIO (Public Information Officer).

I left the jail feeling pretty good about myself. I was going to get the only on-camera interview with Daniel Wozniak.

I felt like I’d won something. I’ll be honest with you guys; my contact with the TV producers had skewed my way of thinking a little. It’s their jobs to care about ratings and landing interviews.

I’m just writing a blog about being friends with a person who did some terrible things. And I guess I want people to understand how I don’t define my friend by his actions.

My reasons for wanting to interview Daniel turned out to be a moot point anyway, because I couldn’t afford to actually do it.

It’s REALLY expensive to film someone at the Orange County Jail. It would have cost me thousands of dollars just setting up all the necessary insurance policies and paying the salaries of all the deputies who would be involved in the filming. Obviously it is a lot easier for the TV shows to pull this stuff off.

I know that I could make back the money I spent if I was willing to sell Daniel’s interview to one of those shows, but that negates the whole reason for having me do it in the first place. So, it wasn’t going to happen. Not now anyway. But Daniel trusted me and when it comes to the two of us being friends, that is what’s most important.

Murderer Musings and the Media: 20/20

All the TV producers have told me the same thing: Once Daniel is sent to an actual prison, he will not be able to do any on-camera interviews. This isn’t the way for every state, I was informed, but it’s the case in California.

This sort of confuses me. I know I’ve seen Charlie Manson interviewed more than once from behind bars. But let’s just assume that’s the situation. It means if Daniel doesn’t agree to an interview while he’s still at the OC Jail, he will miss his opportunity to ever do one.

I don’t think that bothers him. More and more, I think he’d prefer it.

Me? I’m a flip-flopper. Some days I totally want him to do an interview and sometimes I think it’s a terrible idea.

The 20/20 Producer

During the trial, I thought 20/20 had a much better chance of getting an interview than Dateline did. I was rooting for them.

I had a good feeling about the producer from 20/20.

From here on I’ll call her P20. I could have gone with 20/20 P, but I get a kick out of how P20 makes her sound like a Terminator or something.

I liked P20. I felt comfortable talking to her. I never thought she was judging me for being Daniel’s friend. When I would chat with P20 during the trial breaks, I would be much more swayed in favor of Daniel doing an interview.

I bet right now Daniel’s defense attorney, Scott Sanders, is happy it wasn’t my decision.

It was Daniel who put me in contact with Dateline, but P20 found me on her own during the trial. If I remember correctly, she was unaware of my blog at the time. She told me she’d noticed Daniel “looking at” me in the courtroom, so she approached me during one of the breaks.

Occasionally Daniel might have glanced in my direction, possibly acknowledging my presence as a supportive friend.

Soon after meeting her, I agreed to have lunch with P20. I blogged all about it.

I chatted with P20 often during the trial. We’d text about new developments and she’d ask me how Daniel was handling everything. And when her producer boss and Jim Avila (the 20/20 host for the episode about Daniel’s case) came to court one day, she introduced them to me. The 20/20 people discussed the possibility of doing an interview with me, but mostly they were hoping I would connect them with Daniel. So, I did.

P20 asked me if she could come along on one of my visits to the jail and meet Daniel and talk to him in person (off the record, of course). Now I didn’t just spring her on Daniel one day, I wanted to ask his permission first. He hadn’t been accepting any media visits, but we discussed it for quite a while, and I was able to get him to agree to a quick meeting. P20 would come to a visit with me, but she was only to stay for a few minutes. She’d introduce herself, talk to him a little about the show, and then she would leave us to our regular visit.

P20 Visits Daniel

The next week, we met out in front of the check-in for the Orange County Jail visiting center and I “showed her the ropes,” as they say. I felt sort of responsible for her, like when you bring one friend to another friend’s party, but the two of them don’t know each other.

I took her to the check-in line and we waited until we were called up to window two. We put our IDs in the glassed-in pass-through, and I explained how we had to completely close the door on our side or the deputy wouldn’t be able to open the door on the other side.

I taught her how to use the lockers. I often teach people how to use the lockers these days. I’m an OC Jail visiting expert now.

P20 and I waited for Daniel’s name to be called when it was time for the two o’clock visit. I took our paper and led her to the line for the metal detector. When we were on the elevator I got to amaze her with my knowledge about how the elevator doors open up on opposite sides depending on which floor you’re on.

We exited on floor 1M (J Mod) and I walked us down the winding corridor to the room with the visiting cubicles. Daniel wasn’t on his side yet, so I wowed P20 with another impressive fact:

“Sometimes we get here before they do.”

When I saw Daniel heading up the stairs, he seemed a little more reserved than usual. His hands were in his pockets and there was slightly less pep in his step. He was smiling politely. We sat down across from each other, and picked up our phones, and I “introduced” P20 to him by pointing up at her. He nodded a greeting.

I wanted to ask him if he was ready for this. I was concerned that I’d pushed him into doing something he hadn’t wanted to do. Instead, I just stood up and handed her the phone. She sat down on the round metal seat and started telling him how much she appreciated this opportunity to meet him.

It’s odd to only be able to hear one side of a conversation.

On our side, P20 went into what seemed to be a prepared spiel. She explained to Daniel about not being able to do an on-camera interview in California’s prisons. She told him that 20/20’s viewers would really be interested in hearing his story. I heard her say that Daniel could refuse to answer any question he didn’t want to answer. She said that 20/20 wasn’t trying to be the judge or jury… they just wanted to present all sides. She only had a few minutes and was clearly hoping to win Daniel over.

He nodded in understanding.

Then Daniel was doing all the talking. He was enthusiastically gesturing toward me through the glass. “Right… uh huh… sure,” P20 responded.

I was super curious and a smidgen nervous about what he might be telling her.

“That one there is totally bonkers,” I imagined him saying. “Did you know she’s actually writing a blog about me?”

This continued for a few more minutes and I noticed myself looking at my watch. I wanted to make sure P20 didn’t overstay her welcome. Soon after she thanked Daniel again for agreeing to meet with her and the two of them said their goodbyes.

P20 handed me the phone and reiterated how much she appreciated me bringing her along.

“So?” I said into the receiver as soon as she was in the hallway.

“So, what?”

“So what did you talk about? Are you going to do an interview? And why exactly were you repeatedly pointing at me?”

“I told her that you’re my contact. All communication with me needs to go through you.”

“Huh?”

He hadn’t agreed to an interview. He’d agreed to think about it (which I took to mean no) and he wanted to emphasize to her just how much I know about the story and what a good source of information I am.

I suddenly felt like his wingman at a bar. He wasn’t interested in the girl who was talking to us, but she really should check me out because I’m a great catch.

Daniel wanted P20 to just interview me because he wasn’t talking to anyone else.

The 20/20 Episode and After

On March 4, 2016, 20/20 aired its report of Daniel’s crime. The title was “Mystery in Apartment 410,” and neither of us was interviewed for the show. I would have done it, if they’d asked me, though. Oh well. The episode was only an hour (compared to Dateline’s two hours), and 20/20 had an interview with some of the jurors.

I still occasionally communicate with P20. I even texted with her during the airing of the show. It was good, but I wanted more of the jurors, myself.

I didn’t ask P20 what she thought of Daniel after meeting him. She volunteered that he came off as a regular nice guy. But if she thought he was a sociopath, would she even tell me? Probably not.

She did kid around that maybe I should just do an on-camera with interview Daniel myself…

Murderer Musings and the Media: Dateline

When I got that first text from one of my theatre friends telling me that the lead from our most recent production had just been arrested for double murder, I knew that this dreadful crime was exactly the kind of story I would see on my favorite true crime TV shows.

In fact, in the past year I’ve noticed just how many of the ID Network show titles seem frighteningly appropriate for Daniel’s crime:

Nightmare Next Door
Fear thy Neighbor
Unusual Suspects
Murder Among Friends
Killer Confessions
Happily Never After (Because of the wedding connection)

The Dateline Producer

I wasn’t surprised at all when Daniel told me that a Dateline producer had already contacted him. I’m going to call her DP (Dateline Producer) to make it easy for you to keep track (there will be other producers mentioned in future posts).

When I started writing this post, I wanted to check back with Daniel on the chronology of his initial contact with DP. He figured it out by remembering who is “cellie” was at that time. He thinks she wrote to him before I sent my first letter, but she came to visit him after Daniel and I became friends.

When someone from the press visits an inmate, the person must identify themselves as press to the deputies at reception. The media person fills out a request form listing their name and their reason for trying to visit. Then, that form is brought to the inmate for approval.

Inmates don’t have to talk to the press and can refuse visits of any kind. But Daniel did meet with DP and I think she hoped she had an exclusive interview on her hands.

Some of you may have noticed that Daniel was not interviewed on the two-hour Dateline episode that aired in January of 2016 (titled “Plot Twist” -which I did think was pretty clever). That is not because they didn’t want him. It was Daniel’s choice to not be interviewed.

Daniel on Lockup

I don’t know if he ever really considered doing an interview with Dateline. His public defender, Scott Sanders, didn’t want him talking to the media, and Daniel’s experience of being on the TV show Lockup was eye-opening for him. Daniel does NOT trust the media.

Now, you could ask, “What’s he worried about? How can the media make him look worse than he already does?”

Let’s be realistic here. I don’t think anyone reading this believes Daniel is an innocent and persecuted victim. No one’s going to end up seeing him interviewed and then suddenly be convinced that he’s actually a monster. It’s very unlikely that being on TV would make people dislike him more, right?

Although Lockup really did an effective job of making Daniel look like an ass.

But Dateline is not Lockup. 20/20 is not Lockup. 48 Hours is not Lockup.

I’ve been repeatedly reminded of that by producers from each of these shows. I agree with them. I’ve told that to Daniel often. He would probably call me naïve, but I think these shows want honest portrayals.

I just don’t know if it makes any difference. Maybe Daniel would come off as the guy I know: funny, kind-of-dorky, genuinely remorseful, and hopeful that he can try to do something good with the rest of his life.

But would anyone believe that was the real him? Or would they think he was just “acting” for the camera? For that matter, I’m betting some of you reading this think he’s just “acting” for me too.

So, what would be the point of Daniel doing an interview? That is a question I have been pondering a lot lately, and the two of us have discussed the topic ad nauseam.

What does any of this have to do with me? Nothing really. But during the trial, Daniel decided to make me his “go to” for the media. He now only talks to these producers through me. I was genuinely surprised when he made that decision. I’ll tell you that story in the next post.

Originally Daniel was communicating with DP directly though. He gave her my contact information when I started writing the blog.

The two of us met once for coffee and talked about me possibly being interviewed for her show. DP said she was interested in examining all aspects of the story. She wanted to hear about the Daniel I knew.

I liked her. She was friendly and professional. I admit that I was pretty excited to have coffee with an actual real Dateline producer. After that, we would text occasionally, and I waited to see what would happen.

During the first days of the trial, I saw DP in the courtroom. I was confused when she didn’t acknowledge me. She wasn’t rude per se, she just acted like we’d never met before. I had a feeling that DP didn’t want to be seen talking to “Daniel’s friend” in front of Sam’s and Julie’s families. I talked to Daniel about my theory on the phone after court one day, and he decided that he wasn’t going to talk to Dateline anymore. That had not been my purpose, but it was interesting to see how he reacted when he thought his friend was being snubbed.

Dateline did have an interview with Rachel, though. I was very interested in hearing her side of things. But that brings up an interesting question: Did we, the viewing audience, get a true picture of Rachel Buffett from her Dateline interview? I don’t know her, and the OC Sheriffs didn’t let Daniel watch the show, so he couldn’t give his take on it.

Anyone who knows Rachel want to comment here?

The producers of 20/20 and 48 Hours were also in the courtroom regularly. Daniel could still do an interview if he wanted to, but he doesn’t.

Why Would Daniel Want To Be Interviewed?

Daniel doesn’t believe that any good will come from him being interviewed on TV. He has apologized to Sam’s and Julie’s families in writing, and feels it wouldn’t make things any easier for them to see him on TV.

Daniel also wants to protect his own family, whom he loves very much. He has no desire to answer questions about his upbringing, which he doesn’t blame at all for how his life turned out.

And let’s not forget that Rachel hasn’t been to trial yet. You know that any interview with him would be filled with questions about her. If Daniel gives a “no comment” response about Rachel, people will just assume the answers. Daniel has his reasons for not wanting to publicly comment on Rachel right now (I can only guess what they are).

I suppose I can’t argue with any of that, but I still have. Sometimes I think an interview would be a good idea.

Maybe there is a tiny part of Daniel that still wants to be heard. I know that he cares deeply about the OC informant scandal. He could talk about that for days. But it’s not what you think; he doesn’t discuss the topic in reference to helping his own case… although I’m sure there is plenty of appeal material there that will one day come into play.

Maybe there is a part of me that wants people to have the opportunity to see the Daniel I see. Perhaps then, less people will want to kill him (or at least they will stop telling me to get cancer because I’m friends with him).

Either way, it’s not really my decision. I have influence, but I’m just not sure what to do with it.

This is How Daniel Bought Me Lunch

On Friday September 25th, Daniel Wozniak went to court.

I went, too. I wanted to get my own take on what’s going on with this 754-page motion Daniel’s lawyer, public defender Scott Sanders, filed at the end of August.

The overall goal of this motion as it pertains specifically to Daniel’s case?

Here is what I’m understanding:

Daniel and his lawyer want a different judge.
They want the Orange County District Attorney’s Office removed from the case and have it given over to the Attorney General’s Office (as happened in the Scott Dekraai case).
They want the death penalty removed.

Does 754 pages seems excessive to make just those three points?

It isn’t hard to see that there is a lot more to this motion than just the parts that effect Daniel’s case, but, according to Sanders, it is all connected.

There was a front page story in The Orange County Register this past Sunday all about Scott Sanders and how he is “shaking the Orange County legal system to its bedrock.” That is no exaggeration! I sometimes imagine DA Matt Murphy taking out his frustrations on a Scott Sanders voodoo doll that he might keep in his briefcase.

Inside the Orange County jail, Daniel is receiving much more favorable reactions to all that has been happening in the OC legal system. At least from his fellow inmates. He gets thanked often; there are no dividing lines of race or gang membership when it comes to a dislike for the District Attorney’s Office.

This motion is as important to Daniel as it is to Scott Sanders. Daniel and Scott are a team, working together to help people whose rights are being violated. You could say that this has become a life’s mission for both men.

Daniel can turn a little preachy when he gets going on the topic:

corruption quote

Inside the Courtroom

On the 25th, Daniel appeared first before Superior Court Judge Gregg L. Prickett. The courtroom was unusually full. There were quite a few of the victims’ family members and friends. Sam’s and Julie’s parents seemed to have a solid support group. They all waited so patiently while listening to hours and hours of legal jargon.

The morning was spent on the Defense’s request that the currently assigned judge, John D. Conley, be taken off of Daniel’s case.

Judge Prickett listened to arguments from all sides (including a third party I believe was a representative of Judge Conley) and, in the end, called everyone back on October 2nd to presumably make a decision. If Judge Conley is removed, that will mean a new judge will basically be starting from scratch, which will take even more time.

There was a much shorter hearing in Judge Conley’s courtroom immediately following. The Judge made the obvious ruling that in spite of the previous scheduling, there would be no jury trial beginning on October 2nd.

I don’t think that anyone was surprised by this, but there had to be some extreme disappointment from Sam’s and Julie’s families. In spite of this, they remained calm.

After The Proceedings

As we were all leaving the courtroom, Steve Herr held door open for me. I thanked him and could swear he smelled like Old Spice, a scent that reminds me of my father, and of loss. Maybe it was just my imagination.

Beyond learning more about the legal aspects of the case, and morally supporting my friend, I experienced a myriad of emotions that day.

I find these court proceedings truly interesting. I’m fascinated to see in person what I normally watch on TV.

I was also worried. Daniel was excited about the motion and happy that he had a friend in the crowd, and this caused him to repeatedly look back at me and smile during the hearing. I didn’t want my friend to smile at me, or to smile period. I want him to look serious or contrite or something that doesn’t resemble happy. I feel like that’s the way to go when you’re being accused of murder.

I overheard the reporters from The OC Register discussing Daniel’s mood, and I was afraid that my presence would cause him to be described as “smirking.” I found out later that he was given warnings from the Deputies for looking at the audience. I don’t think Scott Sanders was pleased either. Daniel didn’t mean anything by it, but that doesn’t matter, does it?

It was his smiling that drew the attention of a producer from the show 20/20 to me. After seeing him mouth “thank you” in my direction, she approached me in the second courtroom to ask if I was Daniel’s friend. I said yes, and she asked me if she could take me to lunch. I agreed. On the telephone later, Daniel joked that this was the only way he could “buy me lunch.”

I won’t lie. This was exciting. I love 20/20!

She and I talked a lot about my friendship with Daniel, our thoughts on the case, and all the legal wranglings that had happened that day. We discussed Sam’s and Julie’s families and how painful this whole experience must be for them.

We also talked about my blog. I said that my topics go from jail mail to court proceedings.

She told me that any program they might do on Daniel’s story will try to give a complete picture of him. I would hope so. I guess that includes talking to his friends and maybe even reading their blogs.